Fleur on Cul Sec: alcohol-free natural wine

This transcript is generated automatically from the audio and has not been edited. Speech recognition makes mistakes, so treat wording as an approximation rather than a verbatim quote. It is here for accessibility and search.

Hi, I’m Jeroen Vonk and welcome to Sparks by VinoVonk. The series in which I take you into the world of wines, spirits and innovative drinks. And today we’re going to talk about innovative drinks. And from Cul Sec of the Fruit Butchers. And I have a nice guest and that is Fleur from the Fruitslagers.

Fleur, welcome. Can you tell us something about, yes I saw it, the Fruit Butchers. You are in the Pink Bunker. I’m going… Really hard on these kinds of names, I love them.

But could you tell us something about it? Yes, that’s good. Our umbrella name is the Fruit Butchers. You already said it in the Roze Bunker, now it seems like a lot, but Roze Bunker is actually the name of one of our brands. We have various brands and we make non-alcoholic drinks, but also with our own residual flows, condiments and other products.

We started Roze Bunker about nine or ten years ago. Those are syrups. If I remember correctly, we already have a tasty offering, 12, 13, on the shelves. And over the past year we have been very busy launching two non-alcoholic beverage lines. So we indeed have Cul Sec, the non-alcoholic alternatives to natural wine.

And then we have Fieldkite, alcohol-free spirits. And they are great to mix with Roze Bunker or Cul Sec to make a mocktail. And then we also have a number of condiments that we make from our own residual flows. So for example a hot sauce and a tempeh chili oil. The tempeh chili oil is made with tempeh from another brand that we also carry, namely Boonzaak.

There we make tempeh from forgotten Dutch beans. Well, then we have dessert syrups, vinegars, well, everything actually. And we do all this to restore the landscape. Start making better and improving the food landscape. Yes, it’s a bit of a regenerative approach.

Certainly, yes, we also work with many regenerative farmers and growers to purchase products from them, herbs, things like that that we then process in our drinks. Yes. I received these two nice bottles from you to try. Yes, indeed what you say, it is a bit of an alternative to natural wine. Wine with low intervention and what you also see is that there are all these nice bits floating in it.

And yes, I always find that useful. Because then you just know that something is happening. I remember Niels van Laatum when he wrote the book Natural Wine. It always says shake before use, yes if preferred. But that’s where the pressure is, so of course we’re not going to shake this hard.

There are indeed bubbles in it. But can you tell us something about these two? Yes, It is an alternative for natural wine lovers. That is indeed how we sell it. And we started developing it a year or two ago.

And actually our goal was to make a tasty product that has layers, that is mature, that has a lot of body. And so we used all kinds of techniques to make this. And we started looking very technically at what exactly wine is and what it does in your mouth, what it does on your tongue, in your throat. Why does that happen and how can we imitate that without using alcohol or that alcohol has that effect, but. Shall I tell you something about the structure and the techniques behind it?

I think that says a lot. Would you like to pour it into a glass first and then taste it together? Good idea, what should we start with? What do you think? You are an expert.

Orange this one? Yes. Can be opened completely. I don’t have to worry that if my cap is wet it will spray out completely. No, there is some fizz in it, but that’s all fine.

Yes. Yes! So this is the orange one, yay, cheers! What a special scent. Very nice, floral.

Yes, this is the… A bit of white tea and jasmine. Yes, it has quite a few dried herbs that I think you can smell as well. And some pear notes, but also pears ripened in oak, for example. And alfalfa, verveine, so those kinds of dried herbs.

So that’s also a bit of the funky undertone that you can taste in it. And this one also has quite a bit of bitterness, so that’s why I thought it would be nice to start with this one. I really enjoy drinking this as an aperitif, for example. I also see that many restaurants enjoy doing that. Because it has quite a strong taste.

Quite a bit bitter. That comes from gentian, which is a root. And it just gives off quite a bit of bitterness. So this one is full of flavor. Quite spicy.

And this one contains pecorino as a grape. It still gives a little sweetness, I wanted to say. Anyway, I like this one… Wouldn’t describe it as sweet per se. Yes, yes, exactly.

Yes. And so what we actually do with all our drinks is we have a structure that you may not have seen before. So we have some grape juice. We use organic grapes for this. In this case it is pecorino.

Then we have some infusions. So an extraction of taste from water. So the simplest form can be thought of as tea. But it can also be a cold infusion that is present in our white, for example. Then we have some slow fermentation.

We use kombucha for the orange, the L’étable Fumé. So we put the grape skins, the must, on fermentation to get the tannins out. And then we have some tinctures. So that’s actually something like an infusion, but with alcohol. Because alcohol, yes, has a different ability to transmit flavor than water does.

And we add that to a maximum of half a percent. Now there is even less in it, max I think 0.4 or maybe even less. And we really do that to get those volatile flavors back in. So that very little bit of alcohol actually does quite a lot for the layering in taste. Yeah, so that’s basically the structure of our drinks.

Roughly speaking. And each has different ingredients. Yes, and a little bit of carbon dioxide. For that mouthfeel too. And how do you get that carbon dioxide in?

Should I see that as some kind of big soda stream? Yes, we will inject that in. So that is not due to fermentation, but that is applied, so to speak. Yes. Can come through the kombucha.

Yes, no, we added that ourselves. Yes, and it is a very light sparkle, but it still packs quite a punch in the mouth, I think. It ensures that it does not remain very soft. It literally makes it fizz in your mouth. And you said you’re starting with grape juice.

Do you really start with the grape or do you start with dealcoholized wine? No, we really start with the juice of the pure grape, so we don’t dealcoholize. And that is actually a conscious choice because we want to keep that taste alive. And when you dealcoholize it, in our opinion, quite a lot of flavor is lost. So that’s why we chose not to do that and instead use those other techniques and use the pure grape in it.

So that pecorino that I tasted was really… Something I had never tasted before, because you only tasted it in wine form, so to speak. And this had simply not happened yet, so that is quite special to taste and very tasty. So that was also a nice discovery when making these drinks. Yes, and what do you think when you taste it like this?

Very tasty, but I also think it is very special, because it is what you said yourself, it is an alternative to natural wine. So wine that hasn’t had much intervention, so you always have something of an edge, a bit earthy, a bit funky, that makes you think, what’s going on here? And you have that here too. But it’s not like you’re like, I’m not drinking wine or, I’m having a fruit juice. No.

It is really something completely different, but you do feel that it has complexity. Well, nice, because that was indeed the goal, to really make something mature. It is not natural wine of course, because it has a different production process, but what we have done is actually for natural wine lovers, so basically what you say, those flavors that you recognize, to bring them back and also to indeed make a drink that will stand up if you choose an alcohol-free alternative. It is indeed an adult drink. I think the finishing process is quite long, because I can still taste it.

And in a very pleasant way. It’s very pleasant. I think if you have this on a terrace in the summer, you just don’t miss the alcohol. I often hear that from people, I want to have fun, but I miss alcohol so much. It’s missing something and you just don’t get that with this.

No, well, I think you say it. Thank you. Yes, that is also, we share that. That was also the goal. Certainly.

Yes. All those bits that are still floating in there are some kind of residue from the infusions. Well like I said, I’m not the producer, so to speak, the creator or creator of this. I did help with the productions, but I dare not say what exactly that residue is. Yes, we do use it, so it is indeed an infusion that sits in water for a very long time and we filter it, but there is still some left behind.

Yes, but they are, they are pure things that are in it. So alfalfa and verveine, I’m just really thinking about. Dried herbs that we have withdrawn, so no addition in that sense. So they are remains. It is all of organic origin, but the bottle is not certified organic.

No, well it’s not all of biological origin. The grape does, so the grape is a very large part of what is in it. But not everything is of biological origin. That is also because we work with farmers who work regeneratively, so you do not have an organic quality mark. Roze Bunker also works with residual flows, for example, so we make very conscious choices.

And then sometimes biological is not the most obvious choice and there is another choice that we can make better. Yes, so that is why it is not a quality mark, because it is not all organic, or not easy to determine, or yes, exactly organic. Yes, clear. Shall we taste the second then? It’s called Rouge en voiture-voiture.

Auto-oto, right? It’s also a nice picture that makes you think, what do you see in it? I see a car in it. I’m very happy that I passed the test. This one also has that effervescence.

Very nice color. Yes, a really nice red one… Yes. That is very special. And this is based on…

Sangiovese. Interesting. Another grape. So this one is really full of flavor. It also has some fruit and floral notes, for example hibiscus.

You could certainly taste that again. Very spicy, but really very complex. It’s not like you’re thinking, we’re going to have a juice now. Also really full of character. Yes.

Yes. But you will notice that this one is really different from the orange one. And that is very different, but also lots of ripe red fruit, very spicy. Complex, a bit smoky. Sangiovese always has a bit of a smoky feel to it.

Also a little spiciness. I would describe it as red chili peppers, but not very spicy. Yes, no, there is indeed a pepper in it and then I have to take a look, I sometimes forget which pepper it is, but we really add that pepper for that throat feeling, but to imitate the feeling of the alcohol a bit. But there is certainly pepper in it and you were also right about the smokiness, but we use smoked peat, which we collect ourselves, and indeed those fruit notes. So I always say it in English, save currants.