In the latest episode of Sparks by VinoVonk, host Jeroen welcomes Rutger Siersma, the voice behind the well-known podcast “Robust,” which proudly calls itself “the wine podcast of the Netherlands.” Rutger, who has been working in the wine world since he was 15, now runs Wijnadvies.nl, an online wine retailer that operates nationwide. His business won second place in Perswijn’s mysterious award for best wine webshop in the Netherlands.
A Multimedia Wine Experience
Rutger’s company positions itself as “the most multimedia wine business in the Netherlands.” As he explains, “Everyone sells wine. You can buy wine everywhere, on every street corner, all over the internet. But we really want to tell the story behind the wine. Why is that wine so special? What makes the person who makes that wine so special?”
This storytelling happens through multiple channels:
- A weekly podcast (Robust) released every Thursday morning, featuring 30-minute discussions with colleagues Jorgen and Arjan about all things wine
- YouTube documentaries under the Wijnadvies channel, where they explore France with an open mind
- A recent series about starting their own vineyard in the Netherlands
The Vineyard Project
One of the most interesting projects Rutger discusses is their vineyard experiment. After exploring whether they could start their own vineyard in het Gooi during season 1 (available on YouTube), they concluded that while technically possible, it wasn’t practical due to the immense workload involved.
Instead, they’ve made a deal with Twente Wijnhof van Twente to lease two small vineyard plots:
- One young planting they’ll set up in May (after conducting soil research)
- One five-year-old Sauvignon Gris plot that required immediate pruning
This hands-on experience has been educational. As Rutger discovered while working in freezing temperatures, “Pruning is more work than the actual harvesting.” The technique involves carefully counting buds, later weaving the vines, and “almost massaging the branches, breaking them a bit and folding them through the wire.” It’s enjoyable but labor-intensive work.
Current Wine Trends
When asked about trends in the wine world, Rutger offers fascinating insights based on his experience with two physical stores in Baren and Huizen, plus his online shop:
The story behind the wine is becoming increasingly important to consumers. While ten years ago (and even five years ago during the start of the COVID period, which was a significant moment for the wine business with soaring sales and consumption), people weren’t as concerned about origins, today’s consumers want to know where their wine comes from and what makes it special.
Post-pandemic, there’s been a real counter-movement. “People have become more conscious about not drinking too much, but also about what we’re drinking,” Rutger explains. Consumers are more open to challenging and exciting wines, not just sticking to familiar paths.
However, regional preferences still matter. In het Gooi, American Chardonnay remains very popular, while orange wines haven’t gained much traction. Non-alcoholic wines barely sell, though organic and biodynamic options do well – as long as they’re not too experimental.
The bottom line: “People want to know where the wine comes from and what makes it special.”
Non-Alcoholic Options
Regarding alcohol-free alternatives, Rutger admits his business doesn’t focus on them, though he keeps an eye on market trends. While the press reports significant growth in this category, and they did see increased sales in December, January’s “Dry January” hardly moved their limited alcohol-free wine inventory.
Personally, Rutger prefers high-quality non-alcoholic beers during his breaks from wine: “I really find that’s where the quality is achieved.” He believes that alcohol-free wines are still struggling to achieve consistent quality, often leaving drinkers disappointed and reaching for tea instead.
Interestingly, despite the “Dry January” movement, Rutger notes that January was a particularly successful month for his business, surpassing any previous January, which surprised him.
Emerging Wine Regions
At recent industry events, such as Horecava and Wine Professional, Rutger observed a significant promotion of lesser-known, emerging wine regions within Europe. “Eastern Europe is still getting attention,” he notes, along with regions not commonly seen in Dutch trade, like Alto Adige, which offers excellent quality-price ratios.
Germany made a strong showing with a beautiful assortment, particularly from Rheinhessen, which Perswijn magazine recently covered extensively. Rutger has been describing Rheinhessen as a “Rising Star in Europe” for several years, advising wine enthusiasts to “keep an eye on those guys because they’re really doing something amazing compared to the famous regions in France.”
When pressed about specific Eastern European countries gaining momentum, Rutger mentions Romanian wine (Calusari), describing it as “dirt cheap, bargain wine.” However, he highlights Slovenia for its quality wines, citing a recent podcast episode about it. He also recommends watching Georgia, where winemaking is improving with knowledge from the West – an interesting paradox since wine originated in Georgia, but modern techniques are now enhancing their traditional methods.
Through this interview, we gain insight into the current state of the wine industry through the eyes of someone deeply entrenched in both the retail and media aspects of the business. Rutger’s insights highlight how consumer preferences are evolving toward more conscious consumption and interest in the stories and origins behind what they drink.
More information about wijnadvies: www.wijnadvies.nl
Transcript: Sparks by VinoVonk - Interview with Rutger Siersma
[00:00:05] Jeroen: Hi, I’m Jeroen.
[00:00:07] Welcome to Sparks by VinoVonk.
[00:00:09] A series where I take you along to meet people who make the wine world a bit more beautiful.
[00:00:14] And today I have with me Rutger from the well-known podcast Robust.
[00:00:21] The wine podcast of the Netherlands, as we always like to say.
[00:00:25] And owner, but we’ll hear about that soon, of the wine shop Wijnadvies.
[00:00:31] Rutger, it’s great that you have time.
[00:00:33] Rutger: Yes, I’m very happy to make time for this.
[00:00:36] I find it enjoyable, great initiatives, and I think I’m now in an illustrious line of previous guests of yours.
[00:00:45] I find it almost an honor.
[00:00:49] Jeroen: And that’s nice to hear.
[00:00:50] But for people who don’t know you yet, which I can’t imagine, well, you never know.
[00:00:56] Can you briefly introduce yourself in what you do?
[00:00:58] Is everything I say correct?
[00:01:00] Rutger: Yes, everything is correct.
[00:01:01] Especially that it’s THE wine podcast of the Netherlands.
[00:01:05] I’m Rutger Siersma.
[00:01:08] I’ve been working in the wine world since I was 15.
[00:01:13] Once started at a very classic wine shop, but at 26 quickly started for myself with Wijnadvies.nl.
[00:01:23] A, in my experience, very beautiful wine website that operates nationally.
[00:01:28] Once won a mysterious award at Perswijn, second best wine webshop in the Netherlands.
[00:01:36] And yes, we profile ourselves a bit as the most multimedia wine company in the Netherlands.
[00:01:44] Everyone sells wine.
[00:01:45] You can buy wine everywhere, on every street corner, everywhere on the internet.
[00:01:50] But we really want to tell the story behind the wine.
[00:01:53] Why is that wine so special?
[00:01:56] What makes the person who makes that wine so special?
[00:01:59] And we do that through a podcast, weekly, every Thursday morning.
[00:02:05] That’s very new, because it used to come out every Friday morning.
[00:02:08] But a tactical move in the podcast world.
[00:02:12] From now on, it comes online weekly every Thursday morning.
[00:02:16] Thirty minutes of talking.
[00:02:18] I do that together with Jorgen and Arjan, who work for me.
[00:02:21] And then we talk about everything related to wine.
[00:02:25] And we discuss a bit and we…
[00:02:28] We don’t…
[00:02:30] how should I say that?
[00:02:35] Not being commercial.
[00:02:36] We talk about wine as if it’s love.
[00:02:38] We also call it Robust, because my company is called Siersma Wijnadvies.
[00:02:41] We could have also called it the podcast Siersma Wijnadvies, but we deliberately call it Robust, because that…
[00:02:49] yes, I find it nicer to be able to say what I really think myself.
[00:02:54] Besides that, we make documentaries on YouTube.
[00:02:58] And that’s super fun to do.
[00:03:00] There we do have a channel called Wijnadvies.
[00:03:04] But we do go through France with an open mind.
[00:03:08] And we recently made a series in the Netherlands.
[00:03:11] About whether we might be able to start our own vineyard.
[00:03:14] And we’ve started a little bit with that.
[00:03:17] So yes, it’s very broad.
[00:03:20] I think I haven’t even mentioned everything yet.
[00:03:23] Jeroen: Well, very interesting.
[00:03:24] I saw you guys struggling recently in Twente.
[00:03:29] Very cold.
[00:03:31] Completely numb.
[00:03:33] Pruning and then it was like, we’re getting a tough job, but that’s part of it too.
[00:03:37] Rutger: Yes, very interesting job.
[00:03:38] We’re now actually starting the recordings of season 2.
[00:03:42] Season 1 is completely on YouTube.
[00:03:44] In it, we looked at whether we could start our own vineyard in het Gooi.
[00:03:48] And we’ve actually answered that question with no, because we probably can, but we actually don’t want to.
[00:03:57] We do want to, but our minds say it’s better not to do it, because a vineyard, yes, that’s really a tremendous amount of work.
[00:04:06] Weekly through that vineyard.
[00:04:08] And that has been proven.
[00:04:09] We’ve now made a deal with Twente Wijnhof van Twente.
[00:04:14] And we’re allowed to lease two small vineyard plots.
[00:04:16] One young planting.
[00:04:17] We’re going to plant that in May.
[00:04:19] We just did soil research for that.
[00:04:22] And a piece that is already five years old, Sauvignon Gris.
[00:04:26] And that needed to be pruned now.
[00:04:30] And then you find out, yes, a tough job.
[00:04:32] is indeed…
[00:04:34] in those temperatures not ideal, but very educational.
[00:04:38] Something I didn’t know, pruning is more work than the eventual harvesting.
[00:04:46] Jeroen: That’s interesting to give, pruning is more work than harvesting.
[00:04:49] Yes, maybe important, if you don’t prune well, it won’t turn out well either.
[00:04:54] But the technique of pruning, that you start counting well how many eyes you want to keep, the later weaving of the grapes, you really start massaging the vines, almost breaking them a bit and folding them through the wire, yes that’s extremely fun.
[00:05:07] But a lot of work.
[00:05:14] Jeroen: Very interesting.
[00:05:15] What I was wondering is, you are busy with your own wine, but what trend do you see now or do you all see now?
[00:05:23] Because you have a webshop, but also a physical store.
[00:05:26] What kind of trend do you notice now that people need?
[00:05:30] Rutger: What you notice, we have two physical shops in Baren and in Huizen.
[00:05:37] I always find it difficult, there are so many people with their own wishes, that one thing cannot be stuck on what people really need.
[00:05:52] But the story behind the wine, so now it seems like preaching to the choir, is becoming more and more interesting.
[00:05:59] People just really like to know where that wine comes from.
[00:06:04] Where ten years ago, and five years ago, well as we speak five years ago the corona time started.
[00:06:11] That was a really important point in the wine business.
[00:06:17] Sales skyrocketed, but consumption also skyrocketed.
[00:06:20] After those five years, there is really a counter-movement.
[00:06:23] People have become more conscious of not drinking too much, but also, what are we drinking now?
[00:06:28] And that may also be a bit challenging, that may be a bit exciting.
[00:06:32] Not from the established, always a nice play on words with wine, but the established paths.
[00:06:39] A Chardonnay from America in het Gooi still does very well.
[00:06:45] And I must say, het Gooi where I am with Baren and Huizen and online we are especially very active in that region, the orange wines are not doing so very well yet.
[00:06:58] Non-alcoholic wines we also hardly sell.
[00:07:01] Organic yes, biodynamic, but it shouldn’t be too experimental.
[00:07:06] But people do want to know where does that wine come from and what makes that wine so special.
[00:07:12] Jeroen: Yes, so the trend of more organic, people are more aware of the wine they drink, because they also want to hear the story behind it, that here yes but non-alcoholic no.
[00:07:23] And what about non-alcoholic drinks?
[00:07:26] You have non-alcoholic wine, but of course you also have other drinks, sparkling teas, non-alcoholic spirits.
[00:07:33] Rutger: I have to be very honest.
[00:07:34] We’re not focused on it at all.
[00:07:37] I always keep a very close eye on it, actually.
[00:07:40] And in the market, a lot is being said about it.
[00:07:42] A lot is also being written in the press that it’s growing tremendously.
[00:07:47] We did see an increase in December.
[00:07:49] The limited assortment that we have, we did sell it better.
[00:07:54] But recently there was Dry January.
[00:07:57] We really hardly sold any non-alcoholic wines there.
[00:08:00] And if I look at myself…
[00:08:02] The moments that I don’t drink wine for a while, I look for my salvation in very nice non-alcoholic beers.
[00:08:09] Because I really personally find that’s where the quality is achieved.
[00:08:13] And that with non-alcoholic wine it’s still always very much a search for a bit of grip.
[00:08:22] And while you might find that grip somewhere, that bar lets go again and then you’re dangling again somewhere that you think, I’m not happy with this.
[00:08:30] I’m just going to make a cup of tea.
[00:08:32] Jeroen: Yes, I understand.
[00:08:35] Het Gooi wasn’t that dry, we can say in January.
[00:08:39] Rutger: No, I can honestly say that January has been a bizarrely good month business-wise.
[00:08:47] Better than any January ever.
[00:08:50] And I was actually very surprised by that because I hadn’t dared to predict that in advance.
[00:08:57] Jeroen: Well, an interesting trend nonetheless.
[00:09:01] You recently also went to the Horecava and to the Wine Professional.
[00:09:06] At least I heard on your podcast Robust, the wine podcast of the Netherlands.
[00:09:13] There’s also a link in the show notes maybe.
[00:09:15] Maybe also well.
[00:09:17] But what kind of trend did you see there now when it comes to drinking, but also eating with it, that you say, well, I didn’t really expect that and I see that.
[00:09:27] I see that maybe in het Gooi, where you’re then focused.
[00:09:32] I see this happening here.
[00:09:35] Rutger: You did clearly see a lot of promotion for unknown, striking, upcoming, wine regions within Europe.
[00:09:47] And I mainly name Eastern Europe still, where there was attention for.
[00:09:53] But also the areas that we don’t often see in the Dutch trade, there was a very nice stand from Alto Adige for example.
[00:10:02] Those are areas where there is still so much to discover and price-quality can be found.
[00:10:09] Germany was there with a beautiful assortment.
[00:10:12] Look at Rheinhessen.
[00:10:13] Perswijn has probably written extensively about it in the last edition.
[00:10:18] Rheinhessen is such an area that I have described as a Rising Star in Europe for a few years now.
[00:10:25] And keep an eye on those guys there because they are really…
[00:10:28] doing something stunning compared to the famous regions in France.
[00:10:36] Jeroen: Interesting.
[00:10:38] If you’re talking about Alto Adige, that’s Northern Italy, but you also mean Eastern Europe.
[00:10:44] What countries do you think of then and what things do you now also see returning more in your shop?
[00:10:52] Rutger: I think that if people from the business listen to our conversation, they immediately think of a certain wine, which also came back often in the podcast.
[00:11:02] A Romanian wine, the Calusari.
[00:11:05] Now I pronounce it correctly, I think, that’s dirt cheap, bargain wine.
[00:11:11] But the quality wine from Serbia, Slovenia I should mainly say.
[00:11:17] Slovenia.
[00:11:18] But the last podcast was about that.
[00:11:21] Georgia also to watch, because there too, wine is being made better and better with knowledge from the west.
[00:11:30] Actually very contradictory of course.
[00:11:32] It once started there in Georgia.
[00:11:35] But yes, the knowledge has developed and there they are nowadays with that much better actually.
[00:11:43] That knowledge is being appropriated and that quality is rising enormously.
[00:12:52] Jeroen: Interesting.
[00:12:57] If you’ve also been to the Horecava and the Wine Professional recently.
[00:13:02] I’ve at least heard on your podcast Robust, the wine podcast of the Netherlands.
[00:13:07] A link is also in the show notes.
[00:13:09] Maybe also good.
[00:13:17] But what trend did you see there now in terms of drinking, but also eating with it, that you say, well I actually didn’t expect that and I see that.
[00:13:27] I see that maybe in het Gooi, where you then focus.
[00:13:32] I see this happening here.
[00:13:35] Rutger: You did clearly see a lot of promotion for unknown, striking, upcoming, small wine regions within Europe.
[00:13:47] And I name mainly Eastern Europe still, where there was attention for.
[00:13:53] But also the areas that we don’t often see in Dutch trade, there was a very nice stand from Alto Adige for example.
[00:14:02] Those are areas where there is still so much to discover and price-quality can be found.
[00:14:09] Germany was there with a beautiful assortment.
[00:14:12] Look at Rheinhessen.
[00:14:13] Perswijn has probably written extensively about it in the last edition.
[00:14:19] Rheinhessen is such an area that I have labeled as a Rising Star in Europe for a few years now.
[00:14:25] And keep an eye on those guys there because they are really…
[00:14:28] doing something stunning compared to the famous regions in France.
[00:14:36] Jeroen: Interesting.
[00:14:37] If you’re talking about Alto Adige, that’s Northern Italy, but you also mean Eastern Europe.
[00:14:44] What countries do you think of then and what things do you now also see returning more in your shop?
[00:14:51] Rutger: I think that if people from the business listen to our conversation, they immediately think of a certain wine, which also came back often in the podcast.
[00:15:02] A Romanian wine, the Calusari.
[00:15:05] Now I pronounce it correctly, I think, that’s dirt cheap, bargain wine.
[00:15:11] But the quality wine from Serbia, Slovenia I should mainly say.
[00:15:17] Slovenia.
[00:15:18] But the last podcast was about that.
[00:15:21] Georgia also to watch, because there too, wine is being made better and better with knowledge from the west.
[00:15:30] Actually very contradictory of course.
[00:15:32] It once started there in Georgia.
[00:15:35] But yes, the knowledge has developed and there they are nowadays with that much better actually.
[00:15:43] That knowledge appropriating and that quality is rising enormously.
