Joshua on small Champagne growers

This transcript is generated automatically from the audio and has not been edited. Speech recognition makes mistakes, so treat wording as an approximation rather than a verbatim quote. It is here for accessibility and search.

Hi, I’m Jeroen. Welcome to Sparks by VinoVonk. The series where I take you on a journey through fine wines, innovative drinks, spirits—you name it—to discover the story behind the bottle. And today, I probably have a familiar face for you. Joshua from Mijn Champagne Moment.

Also the one I got to do the first episode with. Joshua, thanks again for letting me do the first episode with you. And it’s great that you made time to look at this together: well, what exactly is champagne, and what are the differences? Yes, Jeroen, thank you. I thought the first episode was fantastic, so I’m happy to come back again and for us to delve a bit deeper into champagne this time.

Yes, you should have something tasty, right? Yes. I got two bottles from Jean-Laurent from you, a Blanc de Blancs and a Blanc de Noirs. We’re all going to hear exactly what that entails in a moment. But you are from Mijn Champagne Moment, an independent importer looking for small winemakers.

Before we start tasting the champagnes, could you tell us a little about what you do and what keeps you busy? I fell in love with champagne in 2010. Before that, I wasn’t that into it, and on New Year’s, I only drank half a glass. I realized I was buying the wrong stuff in the Netherlands because the selection was insufficient. So when I went looking for my wedding champagne in the Champagne region in 2010 and really fell in love with the different flavors at a small farmer’s place—because all families make multiple…

flavors of champagne, which we call cuvées—and they all have 6, 7, or sometimes even more different flavors, and when I go to the local liquor store, they have the first flavor from every family on display, and that is actually just the introductory flavor, often a bit younger. I don’t find that that exciting. So I actually fell in love with it in 2010, and alongside my work, it’s a hobby that got out of hand. Now there are four of us covering practically the whole of the Netherlands with champagne, with the goal of turning every moment into a champagne moment. So that you just celebrate the small moments and then toast with friends or loved ones.

So your champagne moment isn’t just for New Year’s, but actually, it could be any day, so to speak. Every day has different consequences, but in principle, yes. I have a fun example where my sport was cancelled, and I walked to the fridge, grabbed a bottle, and said to my wife, “Come on, let’s have a champagne breakfast because the football is cancelled.” I really enjoyed playing football, and I also really enjoyed discovering a beautiful champagne moment, indeed. And you focus mainly on the small winemakers. What is the difference between small winemakers and what is considered large?

If you look at the small winemaker, my smallest winemaker has two hectares. So that produces about 20,000 bottles a year. That might sound like a lot already, but that is actually very small. So he has a side job on the side as well. And that is in Oeil de Perdrix, in the north of the region.

And my biggest producer handles about 200,000 bottles. So the bottles you have in front of you right now. And that is still very small, because if you compare that to the really big players, they are in the millions of bottles a year. I look for the champagne maker where the family still does everything themselves. They work the vineyard all year round.

I help with the harvest every year. I also see what happens to it. They press it themselves, they make their own cuvées. That makes it very special to me. It is a cuvée with a story.

I have known my families for years. I have been coming here for years and I am still there every month; every month I go to pick up fresh champagne for disgorgement. And then I am in the region to catch up with my families and discover new flavors in new villages. What I also like is that you film that occasionally and that you do your own YouTube series. You can find the link to that series in the description here.

But how did you actually come up with the idea to really film those families and let them tell the story, and also let you really see how they make it? Well, actually, there wasn’t even a doubt about it. My goal is for us in the Netherlands to celebrate a moment with champagne more often. To me, the real stars are my families, who are busy day in and day out producing their own champagne, their own cuvées. In my view, they simply deserved a platform where you can see who they are, where I go every time, and why I come there every time.

Because I think you can just see… That love just radiates from the screen. And when they start talking about how wine ages, then… Those are such beautiful images. You can just see the emotion in them.

And I really wanted to capture that. And I just wanted to offer them the platform that, in my eyes, they deserve. Because if you look at what they do, they make amazing champagnes. And they don’t have the marketing power of the big players. So they have…

Some have already made a good step forward, because 15 years ago the labels were terrible. By now you can see that it has become somewhat comparable. There is really a pattern to it. But especially what is inside the bottle, that is so amazing and that really deserves all the attention. And that is what I want to capture.

If you were to briefly explain how champagne is made, it’s like, well, you make a wine from grapes, just a still wine. And in champagne, they often do that per grape variety and per plot of vineyard. And then they go through that still wine, they blend it, before they make a sparkling wine out of it. Can you first tell me how your champagne producers generally do that? What you see is that they are busy taking care of the vines all year round.

There is always something to do; it is certainly busy in the summer because everything grows very fast then. The first thing that is very important in champagne is that there are an incredible amount of laws and regulations. So you have to produce champagne according to a strict protocol, otherwise you aren’t even allowed to sell it as champagne. And then you start roughly in August or September, it depends a bit on how ripe the grapes are. Because the grapes actually determine…

when the harvest will take place. In each village, they look at the sugar content and acidity of the grapes. And as the acidity decreases somewhat and the sugar content increases, you eventually reach an optimal moment when those grapes need to be harvested. Then you see that you essentially have ten days to harvest your land. After that, you have to stop.

So there are farmers who say they will pick at the beginning of those ten days, and some choose to do so at the end, because then you have just a bit more sugar in your grapes. During the harvest, as soon as the grapes are off the field, they are already pressed in the press at the farmer’s own farm. Then they are immediately stored in steel vats. These are enormous barrels. That is where the first fermentation takes place.

That is indeed what you are saying, Jeroen. For each village and each grape variety, they have a separate tank so that there is no external influence. That is why it is steel. It is perfectly regulated. It is dark.

So there is no external influence, and they then have a very pure taste of either Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Meunier grape, as well as Pinot Blanc and Arbane. There are even more grapes from which you are allowed to make champagne. And then after six months, the cuvée—because that is what you said—is actually blended in the bottle. So the goal of the Champagne producer is to always maintain the same taste, with the exception of millésimes, of course. And then they bring together the young wines, knowing that if I…

leave this blend in the cellar for 5 years, as is the case with the bottles we have now. Then when I take it out in 5 years, it will taste just like it is in our glass right now. I find that really convincing when you put it that way, because I think it is truly remarkable that you can do that. So then it goes into the bottle, and it ages with a crown cap, and then the second fermentation takes place in the bottle. And then after aging, it lies down; it ages horizontally.

and then it is turned for another forty days, if you still do it by hand, because there is yeast residue in it and that has to come out, so it becomes forty days, it is turned a quarter turn a day and at some point it ends up standing upside down. Nowadays they freeze the top, which is now the bottom, but they used to do that before. If not, then they turn the bottle upside down, and at that moment they pull the cork off, and then due to the pressure in the bottle, the residue basically shoots out, and then the champagne is open. That is the only moment when, if you wanted to add sugar, you could do so now. And that is actually what you see reflected on the label.

So Brut means between 5 and 11 or 12 grams of sugar added per liter. Before that, everything is based on the sugars from the grapes. And then the cork goes on. That is the disgorgement process. And then the farmer says, “Now it is exactly as I intended.

Come and get it. Go ahead and drink it. And above all, don’t keep it for too long.” Champagne is many things, but not a wine for aging. Interesting. Then shall we open the Blanc de Noirs?

That seems like a very good idea. Yes? Because regarding Blanc de Noirs, can you tell me something about this wine? Yes, what characterizes Jean is that in his basic range, he simply always has a 100% version of every grape variety he has. So 100% one type of grape.

In this case, we have 100% Pinot Noir in the bottle. And he always lets them ripen a bit longer. So here, that also applies to 5 vintages of the Pinot Noir grapes. So they are all still in there. The majority is from the youngest harvest that was in the vat, and the other part has already been in the vat for 5 years.

Subsequently, it aged in the bottle for another 5 years, resulting in a very nice, round glass of champagne. And certainly when you do that with Pinot Noir, which can really ripen fully. It fizzes a little. Then you really get to some very beautiful flavors. Thumbs up on the cork.

You already have it open, but I will give the bottle a quick twist, because then you can feel the cork come out very easily and then a little breeze at the end. Beautiful color. Yes, that is amazing. And also a nice detail on the back, that the disgorgement was from October 2024. So that wasn’t too long ago.

No, so basically, what you see is that for me, champagne is fresh, right after disgorgement, because that is when the farmer simply says, “This is how I want you to drink my champagne,” and that is essentially what I ensure. If you then look at what is important to me, it is that you experience the champagne as the farmer intended. For me, that applies as soon as possible after disgorgement. That is why I go get fresh every month. That means a good temperature—in this case, 9 degrees for the champagne—because otherwise you really push away those delicious, full flavors of the Pinot.

And a good glass. I use a tulip glass myself, you see. The fizz starts at the bottom and it stays a bit narrow here. It gets room to develop in the glass because the aromas have already been in the bottle for 5 years. They want some space.

And it channels nicely to your nose, so when you start sniffing, you get that very full scent. I find this really delicious. You get that very full Pinot Noir aroma. Just cleanse the palate and rinse quickly. And then take a good sip, swirl it around, and enjoy it to the fullest.

Okay, thank you. I would say, cheers. Cheers, santé! What you really smell is truly full, rich fruit. There is also a lot of ripe red fruit in it.

A bit of red cherries, blackberries, strawberries, raspberries. Without being overly exaggerated, but also just a lot of spiciness. A great deal of richness and fullness. You really have power in the expression of that fruit. I have that…

Yes, that leans a bit towards the… There is some tobacco or something in there. Completely full. But I also find the finish, in any case… I get very happy from that finish too.

That it doesn’t disappear immediately. Not that it is unpleasant, but that it lingers nicely on your palate for a very long time. I am really drinking a nice glass of wine. That makes me very happy. It also gets a bit smoky and that finish just keeps going.

Because has this champagne or this wine actually been aged in wood for that smokiness? No, no, that comes purely from the Pinot Noir. Purely from the Pinot Noir and from the terroir where it comes from. And actually, of course, we should also compare this one with the blanc de blancs. You remember those from the episode, from the first episode, with which Sparks by VinoVonk started.

That is also why I have—yes, that is nice—that is exclusively imported by Mijn Champagne Moment. Yes. Yes, I understand that. That is also why I grabbed these glasses, because I only have one such tulip to show the different colors. Yes, that is of course always tricky, because you need daylight and a white background.

But you can really see, the Chardonnay is just a bit lighter. The Pinot Noir is of course a red or blue grape. In terms of taste and intensity, for me that leans towards red wine. Whereas that Blanc de Blancs, although very full-bodied, does seek out that freshness again. Yes, it is nice to discover that difference like that.

Yes, what is funny about that Blanc de Blancs is that it is really 100% Chardonnay. It has a lot of floral notes, but also power. Whereas with that Blanc de Noirs, it isn’t really that floral. And that is more richness due to more fullness. But with both of them, the nose is incredibly full.

Incredibly beautiful. And what is your ultimate goal with My Champagne Moment? My goal? Well, I just hope that everyone allows themselves to treat themselves to champagne. I want to make it a bit more accessible.

And I really want people to discover the different flavors that exist in champagne. That is one thing. And again, I want to make it accessible so that it remains affordable. Because people always have the idea that champagne is very expensive. And if you add these two together in terms of price, you have one expensive bottle in front of you, the kind you normally buy at the liquor store.

So if you buy it from a small producer, it is also much more attractive price-wise. But what I particularly want is for me to know which champagne I want for every moment. Because these two are completely different, and I really enjoy drinking the Blanc de Noirs when it is winter or when it is colder. And I really drink the Blanc de Blancs in the summer. Even though I do have both of them chilled.

Sometimes I just feel like having something and then… Interesting, because in the first episode you also mentioned that you actually want to have your favorite champagne in every village. How many villages are there? I don’t know exactly how many villages there are. There are over 4,500 champagne producers, so I still have quite a few to visit.

But there are very small ones and very large ones, and those big ones really fall outside my interest, of course. So I am just always looking for the beautiful stories, but especially the really delicious taste. So that really has to be an added bonus, because I do notice that if you look at the Dutch market, it takes a while before they embrace their brand and say, “I really like this. ” And then we are also very brand loyal, so we stick with it. I find that trip particularly enjoyable; there are a number of people—and I think that is absolutely amazing—whom I am guiding on a trip, who are already on a different cuvée by their 25th.

And who are simply discovering what they like and keeping track of exactly why they like things and when they want them. That makes me really happy. If I can guide people with that, then you’ve come to the right place. That is fantastic. And what would your tip be when people say, “Well, I actually don’t know what I like”?

What do you advise people to start with? That depends a bit; if they are really at the very beginning, I wouldn’t go for the pronounced flavors. That actually applies the same way when people say, “Find a business gift. ” Keep it accessible; people do have a certain idea of ​​champagne, after all. I think the two glasses you have here don’t quite fit that.

Even though they are both incredibly beautiful champagne glasses. So what you see is that when people are just starting out, just take a… safer choice with 3 grapes, then you basically know what you’re getting, and if you get that from a smaller producer, you’ll probably find it a bit nicer too, aged just a little longer, so basically you don’t have those bitters in the back, because that was actually what really put me off before I fell in love. Yes, if you have old champagne, you really have those bitters in the back, that’s just not tasty, so make sure you know when the disgorgement took place, that you have fresh, ask about it too. Just ask your importer when it was.

If you don’t know, I wouldn’t buy it. I once had a friend who said, “I have a bottle here, should I buy it?” Not from me. And I had no idea either. Because I was looking and I thought, “I don’t know.” So I would just call. You can also just call me.

You’ll get an answer and I’m happy to help you. No matter where you are on your journey. Just go take a look. What do you want? Do you want something different from the same, or do you want to discover something new?

Yes, both are possible. And with a hundred different champagnes, there is always something you really like. And there is also something you don’t like. That’s fine. As long as it is fresh, as the farmer intended, it is only about flavors.

Then there are plenty of flavors in every possibility. Well, I would like to say that is a nice conclusion to this episode. Joshua, thank you very much. You have a website, mijnchampagnemoment.nl. I would say, if you are at the beginning of your journey into champagne, go there and look for a nice, accessible champagne.

If you say, “Well, I know what kind of champagne,” then I would definitely give these champagnes a try. These are very nice choices. I wouldn’t choose, I would do both, but then again, that’s just me. And if you do have to choose, start with one and then do the other. Joshua, thank you very much for this explanation and thanks again for sending these bottles.

This was another episode of Sparks by VinoVonk. And we’ll see you again in two weeks. Cheers! Thank you Jeroen for letting me be here again and good luck with your series. Keep up the good work.

Santé.