Bruno Suter on the 2025 drought and Wijn de Boe

Hi everyone, and welcome to a new episode of Sparks at VinoVonk. My name is Jeroen Vonk, and I’m taking you into the wonderful world of wine. And today, I have a guest who may be familiar to some of you: Bruno Suter from Wijndomein De Boe. Welcome, Bruno. Thank you for inviting me.

You wanted to be our guest again. This time with a good platform where everyone can hear you well, and especially see you. A few weeks ago, I was with you, and the vineyard was beautiful. And I also received two very nice wines from you then: the Chardonnay and the Savagnin from 2024. We’ll be tasting those shortly.

But for those who don’t know you yet, could you introduce yourself and tell us what you do? A vineyard started in Zeeland in 2021. It was a former orchard that we converted into a vineyard. We started with the first three hectares in 2021, one hectare in 2022, and a fifth hectare in 2023. We planted a wide variety of grape varieties.

Pinot Gris. Chardonnay, Auxerrois, Savagnin, Souvignier Gris, and Muscaris in white, and also a little bit of red in the form of Pinot Noir, Pinot Noir Précoce, Pinot Meunier, and Trousseau. So, a whole lot. The idea is also to spread the risk a little, and also to spread the workload a little. And what do you mean by risk spreading?

Last year, I think, is a good example. June wasn’t so good. Or rather, the whole year wasn’t very nice. But June wasn’t particularly good. I think the first and last weeks of June were especially bad.

And then you have the flowering season. So, you have that calyx under the cap. And that’s pushed off by the stamens. And then it pollinates itself. But if it’s too windy or it’s too cold and wet, the flowering fails, so to speak.

You can imagine that if you only have two or three grape varieties, you can lose 70% in a single batch. This also happened with several grape varieties, but we had enough varieties that flowered at different times, so some lost irreparably, some only a little, and a very small number lost significantly. So there’s a bit of risk diversification in that, which certainly helps. Yes, that’s a nice idea. Did you actually plan it that way beforehand?

Well, you do see that diversity in some French regions, but not in those regions. Only in Alsace, of course. They are notorious for their variety of grape varieties. The same applies to Germany. And those are rather temperate climates.

France is certainly warmer, and certain parts of Germany as well. But you see that many more grape varieties are planted there, while in Bordeaux, or perhaps in business, there are three or four. Burgundy is also somewhat limited. So nowhere near 10 or 12, as in northern wine-growing regions. So I think the secret of risk diversification plays a role everywhere.

And you’re also talking about spreading the work. I can imagine that in terms of flowering and probably also in terms of harvest. Yes, that too. I have to start early in the season. Some start budding at the beginning of the second week of April.

Others in the last week of April. And that actually means throughout the entire growing season—not entirely true, mind you—but during the growing season, it’s not all at once, but in phases. You can keep up with that. That’s nice. And it’s the same with the harvest.

And I’m a millennial, so it quickly becomes hard work. Better yet, you know… It was really beautiful. For example, there would be a harvest on September 7th, and then there would be a week off, and then there would be another harvest. Then you had all the time to process those grapes.

You could calmly decide what you wanted to do with them. Similar to experiences in Germany, it was often just… The day starts at 7 a.m. and ends at midnight. So, it takes about seventeen hours a day.

And then it lasts a month. That also had a few too many positive aspects. But secretly, there were still plenty of errors. You’re not perfect, but you can be less detailed. Yes.

But do your days start at 7 or rather at 12? You said, well, the days start at 7. 7 in the morning and then again until 12 at night. And then from Monday to Sunday, which wasn’t a weekend either. That’s perfectly normal for the harvest period.

Everyone in the wine world knows that, but it’s a bit… I don’t know, I have my own opinion about it. But you have 5 hectares. I’ve been there, it’s really huge. It’s all situated around a large farm.

You don’t have to drive a few hundred kilometers. That’s wonderful. That’s exceptional in some ways. You have a lot of additional orchards. Apparently, different plots in certain areas have to drive for miles with tractors, equipment, and people.

It’s just amazing. It’s a real luxury to have it all around your house. You do a lot of it on your own, with a little help from your parents and your girlfriend, I remember that from last time. But is that still the case, or do you have a larger team now? Yes, there are definitely people who enjoy coming to help in the vineyard.

People who are interested in seeing what happens from grape to bottle. They all enjoy it a bit. I involve them in all my thoughts. That’s also really fun. And some students on Saturdays and sometimes during the week.

Yeah, that’s about it. Yeah, it’s still manageable. Of course, there’s more and more work. So I don’t rule out that I might one day… actually have to hire someone.

Only, well, funny, a few weeks ago—it’s been like that every year now, this is the third year—I got a call from a few Syrians. Yeah, it’s great. Of course, the communication is very basic, but it’s really nice. These are people who just stay here. And they come and ask if they can pick leaves to make dolma.

That’s minced meat and rice, rolled up in vine leaves. They come and pick. They really have a feel for vineyards, because they also have a lot of vineyards in their own countries, or at least in their countries of origin. They know… Well, let’s put it this way, I’m thinking about maybe calling on them when it gets really busy.

They’ve also said they have time. Or spare time, let’s put it that way. So yes, in a way, I like that the best. I’ve worked a lot with Poles and Bulgarians myself, which is fine too. Only, of course, they eventually return to their countries of origin.

But these, for example, they stay here. Then I think, well, I should contribute that well to their establishment. Yes, and make use of their knowledge, of course. They have a feel for it. You can just see it in the way they work with the plants.

Super cool. I was with you a few weeks ago, and I also remember from our first conversation that you have different types of soil. You have that in your tasting room, and you also have it in pots. But for those who… I’ll post some photos in between.

But for those who aren’t familiar with this yet, what kind of soil do you have? We initially settled there. I’m not from the Zeeland area. Near Zeeland, but not from Zeeland. And after five years of searching, I came across this site.

It appealed to me; it’s somewhat climate-specific. It’s nice. Plus, you actually have two soil types. You don’t see it on the top layer; it’s a kind of loamy clay cover. But towards the east, you’re in deeper layers on thicker clay fractions.

Ultimately, on old blue marine clay. But further west, sometimes at 15, 20, or 30 cm, you’re on white sand. And I consider that sandy soil. To make some generalisations, usually wines from sand tend to be a bit fruitier, a bit lighter in colour, while those from clay tend to be a bit fuller in the mouth, a bit more restrained in their aromatic profile, but a bit fuller in the mouth. So that means, most grapes, when I name them—not all, mind you, but most—are grown on both soil types.

The idea is that you get both expressions of those soil types in the grapes. If you explain it, it has a kind of hollow violet quality. I always say, “This is a bit like this.” Of course, it’s still abstract. But last year we were able to test for the first time. I had sufficient volume of Pinot Gris.

We kept the sand and clay separate. We used the same yeast, fermented at the same temperature. And there was a real difference. So the sand was lighter, much more aromatic. The clay was restrained.

I don’t want to say you didn’t smell anything, but it was restrained and much more structured. So it’s a striking difference. We didn’t do anything else, kept the standing time the same, didn’t change the pressing method, all harvested on the same day. It was really nice to see. The assumptions were correct.

So that’s really exciting. I have to be honest, that means we’ll have something like 10-13 grape varieties, times 2 soil types. We’re obviously not going to make 20 wines. It drives me absolutely crazy. I enjoy just playing around in the winery.

And since we’re not tied to appellations here, those AOCs or DOs, DOCs, no other such dogmas or neighbors telling me what to do, I’m not bound to single-varietal varieties either, so I can play around a bit. Yes, but I do see you have a Protected Designation of Origin. No, not that. I have a PGI. Yes, exactly.

So a PGI is actually a Protected Geographical Indication. That’s the province, essentially. So, if I’m not mistaken, 85% of the grapes must come from the province. With a designated designation, you know 100% comes from that specific region, which may or may not overlap between provinces. It has to come from that area, be processed there, etc.

We’re not there yet. So, we recently… I don’t know the exact dates, but they recently inspected the designated designations everywhere. So, the island above us is the only designated designation for wine in Zeeland at the moment. So, you have different types of soil, different grapes, and you can make them in different ways.

But do you blend them in a specific order, or do you just say, “I’ll just combine everything?” Last year, or at least the past two years, of course, because the volume was too small. And to keep sand and clay separate, you end up with those paltry quantities of 200 bottles. That’s actually quite nice for a tasting room, I wouldn’t rule it out. Because then the concept of soil becomes more relevant. But to market it, of course, is a bit more difficult.

If I say Pinot Gris sand and Pinot Gris clay, and I also have a regular Pinot Gris, you’re not going to sell it, of course. Then you make three types of Pinot Gris. People think, what do you want me to have? It’s too difficult, interesting for the average nerd, but not for the average consumer. I have to keep it simple.

However, it’s really for me to mess around in the winery. Not last year, because we didn’t have enough volume. Pinot Gris is the only one I could separate. Which I had plenty of. But I expect in the future that, depending on the year and…

well, you name it, we wouldn’t want to make that order very often. That we don’t keep them all separate, but that I can at least play along. So I think more along the lines of, I’ll do 85% Pinot Gris from clay and sand, along with another 15% Auxerrois from sand. Because, aromatic blah blah blah… Well, I’m making this up.

That’s the great thing about the Netherlands, there aren’t any… I don’t have to conform to anything. There are no rules, no set of rules I have to follow. I think it’s just one criterion here at the moment: that the wine should preferably be slightly more than drinkable. But not that I have to conform to a certain style or adhere to certain regulations.

No, none of that. It does have to be food-safe. Yes, that was a proverb. You were talking about volumes. The first time you made wine was the 2023 vintage.

From memory, you had around 2,000 bottles of still wine and 2,000 bottles of sparkling wine. Yes, just the other way around. 4,000 still and 2,000 sparkling. Yes, and if you look at 2024—well, it was a very wet year, we all remember that—the weather wasn’t always ideal, but what about the volume when you look at what you can produce? Well, some context.

So we started 2021, and the first two years of those three hectares we planted in 2021 were in the third year, which is a bit of a theoretical figure, so you’re at 30% of the normal harvest. The fourth year, so the second year of production at 70%, theoretically, so that would have been last year for us. And then this year, theoretically, the full price for those three hectares. So I realized last year that we were in our fourth year. Plantings of 21 hectares were at 70%, and we already had 1 hectare planted for 2022, which was at 30%.

So we have to see it through that growth, so I expect we won’t be in full production until somewhere around 27, 28 hectares or so. That’s really all in full production. And then you also have to be lucky, and so on. Okay, that’s what we said. Last year was indeed much more challenging.

A wet year, we lost a little during the frost at the end of April. But that was only 5%. We did have to turn off the braziers, and we lost part of it. Yes, we did lose a part, and we couldn’t protect a small part; we lost at least half of that. Then that poor flowering month in June, we lost 30% everywhere, so during flowering, with the berries, and with the bunches, something like that.

And finally, well, the disease pressure was high, but we were able to protect against it. Just good foliage work, and we ultimately managed to harvest something like 15,000 bottles in total. So that’s actually really great. I can’t really complain. I wanted to be at 70%, and we were at about 65%.

If I’d had a full-fledged year, let’s put it this way, like now, it’s a bit of a shame to be at 65%. And I know that’s not because I’m an exceptionally better farmer, but simply because of the diversity of the plantings. Yes, and experience certainly counts. Yes, ultimately. But ultimately, those strategic choices are still largely decisive.

I can’t really do anything about the weather in June. Or we have to build a greenhouse or something. That’s also a bit economically unjustifiable. And it’s aesthetic. That might be a silly argument, but aesthetics don’t fit either.

The neighbors might have something to say about that. Yes. And did you only make still wines this year, or will you also be making sparkling wines? A significant portion is dedicated to sparkling, so there are about 10,000 bottles still in the cellar, and then 5,000 sparkling bottles. I always say, the first five to eight years are still experimental.

So that means consistency is, in a sense, hard to achieve. That also takes years. In traditional wine-growing regions, it also took decades, though not forever. So I’m giving myself that time. So the wines will still be a little different every year.

So last year we had blends of Chardonnay and Savagnin in the sparkling wine. The Pinot Noir and Pinot Précoce in the Rosé Brut. In the still wine, the Chardonnay and Auxerrois blend. And then the Pinot Gris and Muscari separately, or as single varietals. This year, or the 24th, we’ve done it this way.

With the red grape in the sparkling wine, you understand, of course, that with last year’s vintage, there was a lot of pink and very flat grapes, and of course, red wine, and of course, not at all. So that will be a rosé brut. Then another blanc de blanc made entirely from Chardonnay, so without Savagnin. And a third, new, more accessible style of sparkling wine from Souvignier Gris and Muscaris. So a wine that’s a bit…

And are you going to make all of these together with a sekt producer in Germany, with Schelvemberger? At the crucial moment, you have, or that’s how I pronounce it, but it’s also nice that he’s been proactive about it himself. Super cool. Is there a wine you’ve made in recent years, that you’re tasting now, that makes you think, “I actually didn’t expect that.” The second time I make wine and I tasted this, you actually have a moment of pride, thinking, wow, I’ve managed to make this so well. Yes, I’m happy with everything.

The first year was already fantastic. You’re working in a temperate wine-growing climate. You have examples from other winemakers, in the Netherlands, Belgium, and Germany. Central-northern Germany. It can sometimes be a bit on the acidic side.

I’m still very happy with what we have. Since the first year. This year we’ve also aged a bit. In the fourth and fifth year, we’ve aged a bit. We’re getting a bit more colorful again.

You see the trend. In the first year, there were aromatic qualities. But in terms of color, there was zero color. This year, I’m seeing that. You see the plants aging.

That winemaking process, you have to master that a bit too; I don’t think it’s as important as what happens outside. They often say that in certain regions, the winemaker simply guides what needs to be done. The grapes do want to ferment, you just have to keep an eye on them to see if they start to ferment or anything, that’s all. You can make a fuss about it, and that’s perfectly fine, but I’m someone of the simplistic school. As little as possible…

I made them, of course, and I simply see it as a result of the grapes wanting to grow here. Just guiding them. I recently had the opportunity to taste all the wines right after they were bottled. I was very impressed… I was impressed in general.

And when you consider, this is only the second year… I thought it was truly beautifully made. And coming from the Netherlands, that was truly fantastic. It wasn’t that I thought, “This is Dutch wine, thin, acidic.” It was truly full-bodied. And what struck me was, a lot of grape characteristics.

So with an Auxerrois, you expect something, and you get it. It’s the same with a Chardonnay. And also, most Chardonnays from cooler regions tend to require a lot of oak aging. They’ve been aged for a long time in very new oak, with lots of bâtonnage, making them all creamy and thick. And with you, that wasn’t the case at all.

Well, yes, those are certainly choices. I hadn’t finished with the wines we made yet. This year, we have three sparkling wines and then four still wines: the Auxerrois varietal, Pinot Gris varietal, Chardonnay varietal, and Savagnin varietal. So this year we did all varietals. No blends.

No, I did try, but I thought I’d see how they stand up as standalone wines. Next year, it’ll be the other way around. It depends on the quality. I found them all of sufficient quality to keep them all on their own. And you have to have enough of it to be able to make a single varietal.

Yes, that’s true. But of course, we did have volume. I think the Savagnin was the smallest batch. But I wanted to keep that separate, to explore the unique character of that grape. And indeed, his choices.

I do use oak, starting this year. Not last year, but this year I do. All used oak. A winemaker I worked for in Burgundy, Morey, who… They get rid of old barrels every year.

I know how they’re maintained; I’d like to take over some. Because barrel maintenance is, of course, incredibly important. But the most important thing for me was, I don’t want too much oak. I work for the fruit from the vineyard, the freshness, and not for vanilla, coconut, and the oak from the forest in Central France. I’m exaggerating, you know.

I mean, there are plenty of beautiful oak wines. That’s not what I mean. Just the ones that suit the climate here, that suit the coast, those are wines that are more fresh and fruity. They’ve had some wood, but it’s more about the micro-oxidative of the barrel. So that gives it a bit more of a role in the mouthfeel.

That definitely helped. I only did that with the Chardonnay and the Auxerrois. So it really helped there. The Savagnin, that would have been possible. But the volume was actually just too small for that.

To really do anything with it. So that one was completely bartered. It doesn’t rule out that it could also go in a barrel another time. I do have the Chardonnay, which was 65% oaked. Of which 10% was new, the rest all old.

There’s a hint of oak in the Chardonnay’s nose, but that’s more vanilla. But that’s it. And in the mouthfeel, you hardly notice it. It’s just incredibly fresh. Yet there’s enough roundness to counteract that freshness.

Or to balance it. What I was also very impressed is that you don’t have a modern pneumatic press, but rather a, what do you call it, a belt press? Yes, basket press, or a… What do we call that in Dutch? Basket press, basket press, basket, basket presse, they say in Germany.

Basket press, man press, just one of those old things. You don’t have to turn it yourself, everything is done hydraulically these days. It’s a bit more modern. It’s not that bad, I’m not walking around barefoot with the recloze. But anyway, slightly different.

The considerations, yes. Just seeing what you’re doing is fun in itself. And it appeals to the imagination a bit more. Not a particularly important argument, but seeing what you’re doing does help. Another secondary argument is that I have limited space, and such a press takes up slightly less space than a pneumatic press.

I actually don’t have the room for that at all. But then the important reasons. The big difference between a pneumatic press and a basket press is that a basket press is, of course, static. It’s just a limb pushing down. That takes a few hours depending on the number of modes.

The press is incredibly slow, but you can’t rotate it. With a pneumatic press, the air ball pushes the grapes against the wall, and then you squeeze them. Then you let it deflate briefly, and it rotates a few times, and then you press again by inflating the air ball. So you get the most out of it. The yield is higher with a pneumatic press.

Or let’s just say, it can be higher. It just depends on how you configure it. The options are endless. With a basket press, you don’t have that. So it goes down once, and that’s it.

What’s very important is the different results. The yield in a basket press is therefore somewhat lower. So I believe that with a pneumatic press, you have to… Well, others will probably correct me, but I think you can probably get 70-72%. I think if I get around 65-68% with that basket press, I’ll be happy.

So that turns out to be a kind of wine behind. That does mean the juice is generally a bit cleaner. So I have fewer liters, but also slightly cleaner juice. So that means you also have to do fewer filtering steps. And that’s worth it.

Yes, and now that we’re on the technical side, what do you do for filtering and fining? I use a small amount of bentonite. That’s the most important fining. That’s 80 and 150 grams per hectoliter. So those aren’t alarming amounts either.

We let the wine clear cold, around 8 to 10 degrees Celsius. We do filter the marc that comes out afterward. Because there are still quite a few liters of wine in there, and it’s a shame to throw it away. So we also let it drain. That’s basically what it comes down to.

We’re talking about small volumes, so I have plenty of time to keep an eye on various things. If you have a company that processes 100 hectoliters a day, it’s a different story. Anyway, I have the time to take care of even the smaller quantities. And then I filter once at the end. So around the end of April.

Well , I’m wrong. Early April. And then you let it rest for a while, and then it goes into the bottle. Yes, bottling in early May and then release at the end of May. And then, it takes a while; we have something called bottling shock, and the wine bruises you anyway.

We don’t know yet, science doesn’t quite know why that is, but it might have something to do with the oxygen it comes into contact with. So the rule is to wait about two to three weeks, just let it sit in the bottle before releasing it. That also gives us some time to label everything, because we still have to do it, of course. I always think of it this way when you’re bottling a wine. It’s the same as when someone gets off a roller coaster.

The moment someone gets off a roller coaster, you shouldn’t take a driving test, for example. Because then you’re also a bit… dizzy, which you can’t handle. Before we move on to the vineyard update, let’s taste them. So, do you want to start with the Chardonnay or the Savagnin?

Okay. Super cool label. And what I find really handy, yes, I love convenience. Just a tasting cap. I also chose the bottle type, actually pretty much the same as what they do at De Kleine Schorre, so on Schouwen-Duiveland.

I thought about that for a while, because we always want to distinguish ourselves with a specific bottle type. Everyone uses a different type of bottle in the Netherlands. I sometimes think out loud, it’s better if you have the same bottle shape in a certain region. Then you get a kind of… standard openness that suits that region.

So I’m not going to choose a Bordeaux-style bottle again. Maybe you can buy it together. I know, but you don’t have your own bottling machine. So someone comes by. And that’s probably the same bottling machine that comes by De Kleine Schorre.

There we have it. Oh, that’s a beautiful wine. A few weeks ago it was already beautiful, now it’s really… You have typical Chardonnay, and a tiny bit of wood, but just loads of fresh apple, a bit of freshly mown grass. Even a hint of tropical fruit.

A touch of nectarine. Ah, incredibly beautiful. A lovely color too. Not too dark. Cheers!

… …in. What I really like about your wines is that they have a certain saltiness, which makes you realize it doesn’t necessarily come from the soil, but it reminds me of fresh sea air. When I was in your vineyard, I also sniffed my nose a few times, and with a little imagination, you really get the feeling of breathing fresh sea air, because you’re right by the sea. Absolutely, 2 km from the coast.

It could have blown in. We’ve insulated it well, but you can still feel the wind in the wine cellar. Mmm, incredibly beautiful. And I think this will only get better the longer it ages. Most wines—I don’t have a reference yet, of course.

Only, these are only four-year-old vines, so I expect they’ll remain young-drinking wines. But they’re around three years old, so it should be doable. Are you building a wine shop yet? I also keep 12 bottles back from each year. That gives me a small reference base.

If people are interested in buying Chardonnay, for example, how many bottles have you made, how many bottles are left, and what’s the retail price? Well, I know the retail price on the market. It’s €19.50 for Chardonnay. We made 2,300 bottles of Chardonnay, I think. And we still have…

I don’t know. How many of those are left? I think about half are gone now, or something like that. I’d like to have that. Yes, last year we sold out within two months of July.

Production is a bit larger, of course, it’s… yes… But… Yes. And that’s still sales through the webshop, certainly.

In various locations in Zeeland too, certainly. We are now represented a little further afield, but it remains mainly in the region up to Zeeland. Well, you know, production has certainly increased; they’re still minuscule. But that’s what makes it so enjoyable, so authentic. I also think they’re very useful in gastronomy, not very expensive bottles.

You have something special, something local. There’s definitely potential. The wines, of course, are more focused on freshness. I’ve also heard that kitchens focused on Scandinavian cuisine, in particular, have a fresher or more acid-based cuisine. And for that, the wines also say they could be even fresher.

Fascinating. Certainly, if you look at cooking these days, a lot of restaurants are using more vegetables; they’re not looking for a very buttery, thick wine. No, they actually want a nice, fresh wine. Now, that’s certainly trendy, those parts are, so in that respect, we really benefit from drinking more fresh wines more often, slightly lower in alcohol content. In that respect, that…

Yes, it’s long. Really beautiful. Super cool! Very cool. We’re starting slowly with wood, taking it easy.

There’s still room for more, definitely. I’m not saying it pretentiously, but I prefer something closer to Chablis. This isn’t for the record, but more in that style. So, more mineral and fresh than, say, something from the Côte de Beaune, which is buttery and creamy. I like that too.

Maybe I won’t rule it out sometime. I mean, it depends on the material. But for now, the style of the wine in general is always fresh and fruity. I try to stay with that. Yes, and then one of my personal favorites, the Savagnin.

I’m quite a fan of Savagnin from the Jura. Always something completely different, really quite complex. You mentioned you have it, and I tasted it and thought, wow, this is really fantastic. I’m really curious about this one. You said it was a small batch.

As you can hear, I haven’t opened it yet, I haven’t tasted it yet. Deliciously fine, unprejudiced, unbiased. A bit lighter in color. Okay, without wine. Oh yes, this works.

I immediately associate it with apples baked in butter with almonds, but without all that rich, oily flavor, but very fresh, but with a real body right away. It wants to oxidize. Just one molecule of oxygen needs to be added, and the wine changes, so to speak. Well, I’m exaggerating, of course. But it just wants to.

And that’s a wonderful thing. If you rein it in a bit, it’s perfectly fine. I’d say it’s a red, bruised apple, one without the oxidation. Absolutely not. But a different type of aromatics.

I don’t think this is its friend to everyone anymore. It’s not an aperitif wine for everyone. I also say, my least accessible wine, I think. I don’t mind saying that at all, because that’s just how it is. Cheers!

Truly beautiful complexity, beautiful structure. It’s very rounded. It has indeed become much rounder than a few weeks ago when I tasted it. It’s just a kind of warm blanket, really. That envelops you, very elegant.

Beautifully aged. Better than I thought. This is also a wine that can really age for a while. Without any problems. Without any problems.

Yes, it really does have length. I also bought the entire range, because I think I want to taste it again later, so I’m very happy about that. But this was a small edition, so I don’t think you have many of those left. No, I had 600 bottles, I think. Or 640, something like that.

And I think we have 60 left now. So there, yes… Yes, 60. Yes, of course, I can count that because I keep seeing that pallet, and it’s small, so I have a rough idea. Yes, yes.

So it’s fun to try. But also not, it’s still… I don’t see a final stage here yet. I ‘m very happy with how it turned out, but I don’t see it as a final stage yet. There’s still some fiddling to be done.

Savagnin is also grown on clay and sand. Well, I don’t have a huge number of vines of those. So you really need a good year, if there’s any volume coming out of there. Then I need to be able to fill a tank with it. To raise it separately.

It’s also a bit more difficult to ride than Chardonnay, of course. So why? I have to admit, Savagnin is the most beautiful grape I have. In the sense that it’s one of the few vines that grows straight up. The rest is mainly Muscaris, a mess.

That depends on that type of vine. It’s a real vine that winds in all directions. You can’t express that; it’s one big mess. A lot of work. You have to go through it three times a season to get it to grow straight up.

It goes in all directions, but Savagnin, on the other hand, I just go through it once, and then it’s done. It’s a very rewarding grape, beautifully upright. And the skins are also a bit thick and the bunches a bit looser. So I almost never have any problems with mold. Because it’s also in the season for a bit longer…

Well, let’s put it this way. Now that it’s ripe, that means the grape is dominated by acid for a bit longer. So you don’t just get mold. It does mean it’s one of the grapes I can harvest last. Somewhere at the end of October, but that’s actually a little bit, maybe a day or two after the last Chardonnay.

So that’s not too bad. It’s actually the Souvignier Gris, a hybrid variety, a Piwi variety. I harvest that last. Imagine. Those new varieties, those hybrid varieties developed in the 90s, you harvest them last.

But hey, they also stay very healthy. Healthy too. That’s also nice that you work with both traditional and modern varieties, that you can work in such a versatile way. Yes, exactly. You can also see a difference in disease management.

Because disease pressure is lower in hybrid varieties. That doesn’t mean you don’t have to do anything, but it’s already less. So that’s also nice. And the bunches hanging on them are sometimes incredible. A whole lot of them are there.

And now the update from the 2025 vineyard. It’s mid-July 2025. How are things going now? Because we’ve all noticed that it’s very dry. It’s not terribly wet.

Nice sunshine. A bit more wind every now and then. No frost, so that’s already a plus. The growth has actually gone very well. It was just beautiful sunny weather, somewhat calm, good, just kind of excellent fruit set.

The fruit set is fantastic. The change of season is helping it grow well. Most are now in their fifth year of growth, there are a few that are in their third year, and then a hectare is in their fourth year. I notice, those plants are still young, of course. Considering it’s been dry for so long now, this is truly exceptional.

I’m going to go back and calculate a month ago, think about it. Back then we were at 80 mm in four months. And now we’re maybe at 120 or something like that. 140, something like that. But of course, that in five months, that’s nothing, that’s zero.

At the same time, those droplets that get underneath have evaporated, so to speak. Just to give you an idea, depending on a number of factors, around 2-2.5 mm of water evaporates per day. Per square meter. That means that if it rains 5 mm, half of it will have evaporated within one day and the other half the next day. So 5 mm of rain is useless to us.

No. I’m happy with the rain we’ve had the past few days; it was something like 20 mm, which makes a difference. And then I notice that young vines, in particular, are still struggling. Yes. Even in the Netherlands, in the Netherlands.

That’s absolutely fascinating. So they just need to grow deeper. And do you help them by giving them a little water? No, I’m not that rigid a dictator. I adhere to the French principle.

The first two years it’s allowed, and then the third year you have to do it yourself. And I think if it works in a country like France, it will certainly work here too. So it’s going well, but I do see some plants struggling. Not all, but some. That also means we have to take it easy with the harvest.

So, plants that aren’t yet reaching the top wire, we really need to cut some of them back, just to let those plants use their energy more efficiently. It’s better now than for it to have fewer bunches next year than for me to over-dry it. And if you compare that to last year, what’s your prediction? Of course, nothing crazy should happen. We shouldn’t get a ton of hail.

Frost won’t be an issue anytime soon. It looks fantastic now, of course. So we’ll probably increase our volume again. But anyway, we still have two months to go. And since we haven’t had rain in so long, I expect it to rain at some point.

Probably buckets. And that, of course, is just around the corner in September. No, well , I have no idea. I … I can’t make a statement about that; I don’t think I ‘m a winegrower.

If you ask me now, the starting point is fantastic. But anyway, that doesn’t mean anything. It could rain heavily soon, and then you’ll naturally get enormous mold pressure. Not so much on the bunches, but certainly on the leaves. And if those leaves then fall off, you won’t have solar panels for your grapes.

Then you still won’t have any ripening. Then you’ll have a lot of grapes hanging, but they won’t be ripe. So I do think the worst is behind us. We have to be more careful now, by the way. Anyway, I think the worst, the moments where it could potentially have a major impact, are over.

But we’re not risk-free yet. And this applies to every farmer, by the way. Speaking of wine grapes, this applies to beets, potatoes, onions—it’s all the same. It’s only safe if it’s inside. It ‘s the same for the grapes.

But in any case, it’s an easier year than last year. We often talk about years in terms of which fungus dominates a year. So, last year had a lot of moisture, so it was a real downy mildew year. Because downy mildew thrives in moisture. You’d think now, it’s dry, so you won’t have any mold problems.

But there’s one fungus that thrives in dry weather and, for example, some damp nights. And that’s powdery mildew. And that pressure has been truly enormous over the past month and a half. It’s a bit counterintuitive, so you think it’s dry, so there won’t be any mold problems. But that’s not how it works.

The pressure is truly immense. Where last year was, there were occasional spots. Now we sometimes have two to three weeks of heavy pressure in a row. And we’re in these days now, because of course we had rain over the weekend. This week is also again; powdery mildew pressure is incredibly high.

You think there’s nothing, but there’s always something. That means a lot of monitoring. Absolutely. As the grape clusters close more, their vulnerability to these fungi decreases. We’re at that point now.

But you can still pick up an infection in that last week. For now, things are looking rosy. Towards the end of the season, once it’s all in, we’ll check in again, so how are things going? I want to thank you very much for your time. Thank you so much for the beautiful bottles.

If you’re interested in these wines, visit Wijndomein De Boe’s webshop. I’ll share some links… Come visit. What did I see on Instagram? Do you have a terrace these days?

Since the release, we’ve also been serving at home. So you can just come and sit with us, have a glass of wine, a cheese board, local cheese, of course. The weather is nice, of course. The large De Boeie house that we have a view of, the large country house, and then the vineyards on either side. That ‘s a lovely place to be .

It’s a beautiful place. And do you also give tours on Saturdays? Yes, Sundays too. Animo is a big plus. On Saturdays around 1:30, 2 or so.

You can register for that in advance. I enjoy doing it. I usually limit it to one tour a day. I really enjoy it, but well, it’s very intense. So once is enough for me.

It also takes a lot of time, and people have all sorts of questions. That’s fun. I understand, I now understand very well, that teachers enjoy it when children ask questions, an apathetic group, yes, that… Super cool. Bruno, thank you so much for your time.

Thanks for the wines. Are you interested in these wines? Definitely look them up. They’re really great from a gastronomic perspective. And anyway, who doesn’t enjoy drinking something local?

And if you’re in the area, you’re there in no time. You just need to set the navigation correctly. And don’t be as stubborn as I am, because then you drive past it and think, “I’ve passed it.” Then you take the roundabout and drive back to… Obscure as we are, we haven’t even thought about putting up better signs. No, that will be just fine.

Bruno, thanks so much. I’d say summer. And let’s hope the weather conditions are perfect for the grapes. And that some nice wine will be produced. Cheers!

This was another episode of Sparks by VinoVonk. Don’t forget to subscribe on your favorite channel. App, you name it. And we’ll see you next time. Cheers!